How Did EU/MS Case Affected Opera Desktop Users Growth?
Earlier today Opera Software has posted their Q2 2009 financial results which are pretty good.
However, with campaigns such as “Boycott Opera”, it is interesting to check on how EU and Microsoft case has affected Opera Desktop short term user growth.
Q1, 2009 – ~40 million use Opera for PCs
Q2, 2009 – 40 million use Opera for PCs
As you can see, Opera Software has not reported Q1 vs. Q2 desktop user growth (which was 13% in 1Q vs. 4Q08), which leads to speculation that case indeed, affected PC web browser.
Of course, this could also happen due to new competitor’s products, and things might get better with Opera 10 release (set for September 1st).
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Vygantas is a former web designer whose projects are used by companies such as AMD, NVIDIA and departed Westood Studios. Being passionate about software, Vygantas began his journalism career back in 2007 when he founded FavBrowser.com. Having said that, he is also an adrenaline junkie who enjoys good books, fitness activities and Forex trading.
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these actions mostly went undetected by mainstream users – but hey, those do not use opera at all, because they dont know about it
as for the educated ones, you can give only so much sympathy to a browser that ‘breaks’ on major sites, and always claims it is somebody’ else fault.
while it might be truth, whining doesnt make opera look good.
oh, and the lack of extensions :)
in the financial results it is quite shocking to see desktop rewenue going down in this quarter. maybe because userbase actualy shrunk? there is NO mention on how opera measures desktop users, and maybe they are using the most optimistic values available? they cant do the same with money.
Nope. Opera reported that the user base grew in Q2.
The revenue went down because the Norwegian currency has strengthened itself compared to the currencies Opera is paid in (Euro, Dollar). Last quarter the currency situation was the complete opposite, the Norwegian currency was unusually weak. Now it’s much stronger.
No, they said that it grew. The decline is because the Norwegian currency was inflated during the quarter, not because of loss of users.
Eh? A 93% increase is “going down”? Wow.
first – stop acting as two persons, your favourism towards certain words/verbal abuses makes you easily detected. like ‘shils’ or that lovely hyperboles you do.
second – 93% revenue is y/y, looking at q2/q1 we see a clear slowdown. much larger than currency problems you point out, esp because NOK was weak just when every other non-euro currency was (nov 2008-jan 2008) so it is rather lame excuse.
chrome is redefining what a browser is – this is innovation. their product is very well thought of, it has almost 100% website compatibility and extremally sleek interface. opera looks like dinosaur, like steam-engined ferrari.
unite is useless in real world, even opera deems it not so important, because it was dropped from initial opera 10 release. if the response from the market was OK (and they certainly hyped it so and expected it to shake the world), opera 10 would have been postponed to include Unite. but it isnt, it is merely a ‘perk’ that doesnt affect anything important.
turbo is indeed nice technology, however, extremaly limited in configuration options. competitors would have leveraged this technology ie. gave img compression factor control, or ability to turn on ‘plugin’ filter alone (that is very good, but you cant use Turbo because of unreadable images). this is wasted oportunity of sorts.
innovation? make API for extensions. people will innovate things that THEY need. chance of opera fullfilling needs of many users is low. so many users go to a browser, where extensions are tailored for extremaly niche needs. opera cant compete with that.
as for the ‘whine’
it was in this year when most ‘opera whines’ happened. they had lots of (bad) press coverage, and while complaints were valid, for many people all opera do now is whining.
opera looks like a company that failed to become a major player (it certainly isnt one now) and now wants to get there with whinage.
I don’t know what you are trying to say here. NOK was weak compared to the Euro and Dollar, and that’s all that matters.
And if you had even a tiny clue about financials, you would have known that you always make the comparison to the same quarter the year before because of seasonal variations. For example the seasonal variation Opera mentioned where most of the user growth each year is Q4 and Q1.
And you can see the same in 2008. From Q1 to Q2, the desktop revenue was about the same. But from Q1 to Q1 there was a massive increase.
…and you can’t come up with one single reason why it supposedly is. Instead you are just mindlessly bashing Opera.
Useless assertion.
Maybe it was deemed TOO important to be included in Opera 10 in an unfinished state.
Why postpone Opera just because of Unite? Your arguments don’t make sense. There’s no reason to delay Opera 10.0 when they can just include it when it’s actually ready.
That’s not innovation.
No it wasn’t. It was late 2007-2008. You fail again.
And yet they are growing massively in all areas.
” innovation? make API for extensions.
That’s not innovation.”
so your attention span is one sentence long?
Clearly your attention span is lacking since the context was innovations by Opera.
Extensions are mostly just crappy copies of cool features in Opera or other browsers.
Even StatCounter, which has typically provided more optimistic market share statistics for Opera, is now ranking it in 5th place behind Chrome and Safari, whereas it used to be 3rd right after IE and Firefox.
Opera has lost track of what innovation really is. The company is sticking to the outdated definition of innovation, i.e. merely adding more and more features. They’re running out of ideas what to throw in next now, resulting in risque additions like Turbo and Unite, while competitors like Chrome continue to forge ahead and redefine the browser.
And of course, Opera’s whiny attitude is a complete turn-off. It’s a pity, since after all’s said and done, Opera is still a decent browser.
This is just retarded. If the EU case affected Opera, why didn’t it affect them from 2007 when the complaint was filed and the flames started flying? Why didn’t it affect them in 2008? Why did it affect them for 3 months in 2009?
According to opera, Q1 and Q4 are usually when the user base grows the most, so why would this year be any different?
Never mind the fact that Opera hasn’t launched a new version in a long time.
Yeah, because like everyone knows, these browser stats are just SO reliable!
This is a stupid statement. Opera is doing what they have always been doing. You need to stop making clueless claims that have no basis in actual history.
What’s “risque” about Turbo? It’s an insanely useful feature if you are anywhere in the world, except maybe the big cities in western countries.
Most people in the world still don’t have broadband access.
And Unite? First you whine about how Opera has “stopped innovating”, and then you whine about them innovating Unite? Amazing.
What “whiny” attitude? Why aren’t people put off Mozilla and Google then, if “whiny attitudes” are so bad? They are whining about Microsoft too. But I guess that to hypocrites it’s only bad if Opera does it…
What are you talking about? Opera Turbo is amazing for anyone not on a perfect broadband connection. You need to stop thinking that everyone is in the same situation as yourself. In fact, most people on the planet have extremely crappy connections, so Opera Turbo will be great.
How is Chrome redefining anything? By using separate processes for separate tabs which first came in IE8? Or with the new JS engine which was done by Apple before everyone else? Nothing Chrome does is new.
Why is the form eating all my comments again?
Actually, if you watch the webcast, they did report that the user base grew in the second quarter.
Why would the EU case affect Opera now anyway? Why not in 2007 or 2008?
Because only in 2009 all this mess and boycotts started.
No, the “mess” started in 2007 when Microsoft’s crimes were reported.
The “boycott” was a joke. They became a public laughing stock. Even Ars Techica, which is usually professional and serious, mocked them.
Besides, Opera reported a growth in the userbase in Q2, so what on earth are you talking about?
Why do you keep making up stuff about Opera?
They have not reported growth Q2 vs. Q1.
It seems, that Desktop incomes degraded since 2009Q1 from 47 to 44.3 MNOK, which is the first fall-back since it went free in 2005. But Devices incomes rose from 116 to 127.7 MNOK. That’s a positive balance, what’s more, there’s an economic crisis upon us all…
As for userbas, they report 13% increase since the end of 2008 in Q1 and 17% for Q2. It’s not big, but definitely an increase.
Which really amazes me (and give me hope) is the rate Opera hires peoples. There were 510 employees in the end of 2008Q1, 685 in the end of 2009Q1 and now there are 727 of them. That means 42 more in 3 months.
They reported a user base growth in Q2. That’s a fact. Why are you trying to deny it?
I am not saying that they have not reported user base growth, please re-read this:
They have not reported growth Q2 vs. Q1. < for Opera desktop browser.
They reported that the user base grew in Q1. They also reported that it grew in Q2. When was the user base supposed to SHRINK exactly?
Your desperate moves to invent stories about Opera is quite amazing. Why don’t you leave analyses to people with an actual clue? Your “analyses” always end up feeding the anti-Opera trolls.
But then again, you have always hated Opera, haven’t you?
I never said it did shrink. In fact, my article clearly says that it increased from ~40 to 40 million.
Again: they have NOT reported >> PERCENTAGE < < increase, >> COMPARED << to Q1.
Again, THEY REPORTED AN INCREASE. Got it?
BTW, compare to 2008. From Q1 to Q2 the revenue growth was basically 0. How do you explain that? Was there a boycott in 2008 too?
Geez.
Well, good luck with your logic then :)
I don’t know what you are trying to say here. NOK was weak compared to the Euro and Dollar, and that’s all that matters.
…and you can’t come up with one single reason why it supposedly is. Instead you are just mindlessly bashing Opera.
Useless assertion.
Maybe it was deemed TOO important to be included in Opera 10 in an unfinished state.
Why postpone Opera just because of Unite? Your arguments don’t make sense. There’s no reason to delay Opera 10.0 when they can just include it when it’s actually ready.
That’s not innovation.
No it wasn’t. It was late 2007-2008. You fail again.
” if the response from the market was OK (and they certainly hyped it so and expected it to shake the world), opera 10 would have been postponed to include Unite.
Why postpone Opera just because of Unite? Your arguments don’t make sense. There’s no reason to delay Opera 10.0 when they can just include it when it’s actually ready.”
why? because most non-opera users will see only first release of major version (lots of press coverage thus new users) and will never try it again if it fails. opera dropping unite means that most non-opera users will not see it ever until version 11 when they will try opera again. understood or you are simply to limited in mental capabilities?
“I don’t know what you are trying to say here. NOK was weak compared to the Euro and Dollar, and that’s all that matters.”
it was weak in last year, not in q1..
” They have not reported growth Q2 vs. Q1.
They reported a user base growth in Q2. That’s a fact. Why are you trying to deny it?”
you are going desperate. desktop revenue growth q2/q1 is negative.
and while you point out that browser stats are unreliable, the same goes for opera ‘claims’ about opera usage. nobody external verified opera’ claims. so these figures can be a little optimistic. opera cant manipulate financial data, so there is where actual truth lies.
as for WHEN opera complaint was so vibrant around the net:
http://www.google.com/views?q=opera+complaint+view%3Atimeline&vwdr=2007-2009&btnmeta%3Dsearch%3Drestrict=Set+filter&num=5
You really are desperate, aren’t you? Carefully picking your search terms to “prove a point” which is invalid since Opera never actually lost any users despite your desperate attempts to show otherwise.
what?
you’ve lied that most opera whinnage happened in 2007, yet it clearly was mainly h1 of 2009.
do you want cheese with that whine?
I don’t know what “whinnage” is, but Opera reported Microsoft’s crimes in late 2007. That you carefully pick your search term to get away from the fact that you got the facts wrong as always isn’t anyone else’s fault.
buhuahahaha
carefuly picked search term: ‘opera complaint’..
ground slipping from under your feet?
Says the desperate whiner who can’t even get basic facts straight and gets so desperate he has to lie :D
That is just nonsense. You are evidently completely clueless about these things.
As a matter of fact, postponing Unite is a stroke of genius. They get all the hype for 10.0, and then they get all the hype again with 10.1 because Unite is included, and everyone wants to use Unite.
Actually, the Dollar and Euro were UNUSUALLY HIGH compared to NOK in Q1. Pay attention already.
Because of NOK getting back to normal after being unusually low compared to the Dollar and Euro. I already told you that this is what Opera said, and what the facts show. They also said they gained users in Q2, and they are required by law to be truthful.
You are really desperate.
Whether Opera’s claims about usage are 100% correct or not (they are more accurate than anything else, but just for the sake of argument), as long as the methodology is the same, it will clearly show whether there is growth or not.
Opera reported user base growth, and they are required by law to tell the truth, or they will be punished.
The financial data is because of currencies, as I have explained to you numerous times by now, but you are obviously not interested in actual facts.
“Whether Opera’s claims about usage are 100% correct or not (they are more accurate than anything else, but just for the sake of argument), as long as the methodology is the same, it will clearly show whether there is growth or not.”
and yet you deny that trends can be read from stat gathering sites.. double standards or hypocryte?
No, trends can definitely be read from statistics. But not for browser statistics that claim to be “global” because you aren’t working with the same data. StatCounter, Net Applications, etc. will remove and add sites to their stats all the time, and it isn’t even a representative sample.
Just because these “global” browser stats are invalid doesn’t mean that all types of statistics are.
Statistics 101. How about you educate yourself before posting uneducated nonsense like that?
For the clueless:
– Opera’s data: Based on the same type sampling, using the exact same method over time.
– Global browser stats: Based on an unrepresentative sample with huge error margins where the data changes over time.
Even a child would be able to spot the difference. But some seem to be below a child…
“- Opera’s data: Based on the same type sampling, using the exact same method over time.”
link to detailed methodology description please.
“- Global browser stats: Based on an unrepresentative sample with huge error margins where the data changes over time.”
mean error in normal distribution equals 1/sqrt(sample size) so with sample in size of milions, this error is nowhere near ‘huge’, in fact it is less than 1% of 1%. and who is a moron now? representative sample is a subjective term and depends of desired error levels. with sample of milions, it is VERY representative, yet globaly biased. it can show trends anyway.
You are the moron for not realizing that the sample changes over time, which is just one reason why even comparisons over time are completely unreliable.
It can’t show trends when the sample is not representative (it’s based on people who choose to use that service, etc.), and the sample changes over time so comparing period A to period B will be a comparison between different samples.
So to conclude:
– A 93% revenue growth is a decrease
– A reported increase in user base in Q2 really means a decrease
– The 93% decrease in user base happened because some tiny site called for a boycott, whereupon they were globally ridiculed across the web
– Currency never had an effect on Opera, ever
– Chrome is extremely innovative even though it only does things someone else did first
Did I miss something?
a train out there.
do not hesitate to leave
D e s p e r a t e :D
Off-topic (I won’t get into this discussion)
Hanging on last element has been fixed/almost fixed in RC2. :)
great news. that might actualy help opera grow in statistics, as some of them are not counted before page FULLY loads..
It’s amazing how the shills come in here, desperately believing that they can insult and argue up Opera’s market share, when Opera is the only one saying that their market share is increasing with every other independent source of statistics disputing that claim.
Perhaps the reason that Opera isn’t making as much profits is because they spent too much on paying these shills to troll people on the Internet…
It’s impossible to measure market share. And Opera isn’t saying anything about whether their market share is increasing or not, so you are once again spreading misinformation.
What is known for a fact is that Opera is gaining users. Since the same quarter last year, Opera’s desktop user base grew by 65%. That is faster than the overall market. If that isn’t reflected in the stats, then that’s just more proof that the stats are bogus.
Opera “isn’t making as much profits”? LOL. Opera’s revenue was up 53%. Desktop revenue alone was up 93%. And yes, the company is profitable.
Sure, stats all are bogus, except for the ones coming from Opera. We dig, baby. We dig.
Statistics 101 (repeating myself to educate the uneducated):
Just because these “global” browser stats are invalid doesn’t mean that all types of statistics are.
Trends can definitely be read from statistics. But not for browser statistics that claim to be “global” because you aren’t working with the same data. StatCounter, Net Applications, etc. will remove and add sites to their stats all the time, and it isn’t even a representative sample.
Unlike these “global stats” with their constantly changing data sets, Opera works on the same type of data all the way, so their comparisons over time are actually valid.
“Unlike these “global stats” with their constantly changing data sets, Opera works on the same type of data all the way, so their comparisons over time are actually valid.”
link to detailed methodology description
What kind of self-claimed “educated” statistician goes on a bulls***-spewing rampage without even clarifying the detailed methodologies used by the various companies, and why are(n’t) they valid?
What kind of self-claimed “educated” statistician simply claims that other sites are not valid, and only Opera’s data is?
A paid shill trolling on the Internet pretending to be an educated statistician, that’s what kind.
I didn’t say that only Opera’s data is valid. Statistics done right is perfectly valid.
You are the one arguing that because global browser statistics are bogus, all statistics must be. I explained that this
isn’t the case. I also explained why.
All you seem to be able to to is rrraaaagggeeee over being wrong againg and again and again :)
It’s telling that the Opera shills paid to troll on sites like this one have yet to show any detailed methodology used by statistics sites to collect data, despite their vigorous assertions that those statistics are “wrong”, and despite how they claim to be “educated” persons trying to “teach” us about Statistics 101.
It’s telling that they try to pre-emptively declare “victory” in the discussion, without providing any evidence for their made-up bulls***, when in reality the only thing they’ve proven is how adept they are at pulling random, unverified claims out of their rear end.
Enough said, I think it’s pretty obvious by now we’ve all been trolled and taken for a ride.
“Since the same quarter last year, Opera’s desktop user base grew by 65%. That is faster than the overall market. If that isn’t reflected in the stats, then that’s just more proof that the stats are bogus.”
I can’t believe I missed this priceless gem coming from our dear “educated” statistician.
You’re doing nothing but trying to pull a fast one. What’s even funnier is that you actually claim to be an “educated statistician” and turn around immediately to spout such obvious bulls***. If Opera has 2 users, and they gain an extra 4, that’s a 200% increase. If the Internet has 100 million users, and another 1 million people go online, that’s a 1% increase. That Opera’s desktop user base is growing faster than the overall market means nothing; those two occurrences are perfectly compatible.
Just a quick Statistics 101 for bogus statisticians who try to call a poor bluff.
And besides, if Opera’s user base really is growing faster than the overall market, then I’d say that’s exactly the proof you need that Opera’s stats are bogus. Or are you trying to say that not only are browser market share statistics records wrong, worldwide telemetry about Internet usage is wrong as well, and only Opera is giving us valid numbers?
Sorry, but you’ve just been exposed as the sham and shill that you are. Looks like it’s about time for Opera to dock your pay for such a lousy performance.
Wow, the trolling is trong with this one :D
Nope. I just explained that you are clearly clueless about statistics.
Your trolling is intense. It’s almost as if someone is paying you to troll here! :D
Yes, browser statistics are bogus for the reasons I have already told you about. You can keep denying the facts and trying to change the subject, but that won’t help you because you will be exposed as the paid shill of a troll that you are in the end.
“Opera is the only one saying that their market share is increasing with every other independent source of statistics disputing that claim.”
actualy i believe opera when they say that they have more users. but as there is even more internet users out there their growth is what is called ‘organic growth’ – ie. opera marketshare is growing at the same pace as market is.
Did the overall market grow 65% since Q2 2008? Opera’s desktop user base did.
you are too stupid to understand what percentages mean. but, for the sake of making you look stupid:
opera user base is around 40mln, right?
global market is around .5bln? lets pretend it is, it is a random big number.
if global market grows to .6bln, opera userbase organicaly grows (without affecting market share) to about 48mln.
opera reports 40 to 48mln increase using percentages (+20%), thus reporting huge market gains. but because their base is low, it is easy to get confused (or lie on purpose) to make opera userbase growth looks better than it actualy is (looking at the market in general).
if global market rose 65% y/y? it is quite possible.
and you are lying that it is impossible to calculate market share, you can estimate it with very good accuracy, you can observe trends. in all these measurements opera growth is smaller than it’s competitors. it is growing, but very very slow, so slow, that it can as well mean stagnation.
If anyone looks stupid, it is you. You are so desperate to try to make Opera look bad that you will spew outright lies. Quite pathetic.
No, it is you who are ignorant of the facts. It is impossible to calculate global market share because no one has a representative sample, the sample keeps changing so you are comparing apples and oranges over time, and there are too many error sources.
The only fact we know is that Opera has gained users. We do not know the global market share because that’s impossible to measure. Only a defiant little child would insist that it is after being faced with the hard facts.
Of course, you are too ignorant, racist and bigoted to let mere facts get in the way of your trolling.
oh noes
A LOT has been said around here. I won’t jump in an endless debate. But allow me to just say this in simple term — in the most simplest way and shortest way possible…
Whether or not Opera is increasing in user base, it’s definitely not significant. Opera will remain the same. Meaning it will never grow substantial user base to actually become a popular browser as say Firefox, Chrome, Safari, or IE.
Most of the user growth of a browser company depends on “Word of Mouth.” Everyone uses Firefox as an alternative browser because many of their Friends, Relatives, or Co-workers use it. As for me for example, I could hardly even think of one friend or one relative who uses Opera.
For the average joes out there, they wouldn’t know the tech difference between IE, FF, Safari, Chrome, and Opera. And their decision would simply rely on friend/relative recommendation.
And it’s obvious that the most likely recommendation is always Firefox. That’s the most popular alternative browser out there.
If Opera wants to really gain substantial “user growth” then they’d better start a Word of Mouth campaign… something impossible as it would cost them precious dimes… Dimes which they would rather spend on their so-called “Browser Innovation” development program.
Also, the fact that Opera is the only major browser company that is “foreign” doesn’t help. Generally, the consumer trend is to support and patronize what’s “local” before seeking something that is foreign — only as a last resort. And so far the local browser brands in the US are doing a hell of a good job.
Let’s not debate user growth/ financial growth as there is really no way to know that exact truth with Opera. One thing I know is that it’s not really growing in popularity. I really hope this sums it up.
I think you should realise that the world is not just the US of A ? :P
Opera does have a good share outside of the US, especially in Eastern Europe.
I agree that Opera probably would never be as popular as the other browsers, coz its not backed by a big company. But we do need Opera to keep making browsers coz they are the guys who keep innovating and still keep the browser lean.
Also I agree it is pointless debating whether their number of users grew or not. But it is worth noting that the users who opt for Opera opted on their own , not coz they saw an ad in Google or coz they saw some news item which said some browser is awesome and has zillions of downloads.
“But it is worth noting that the users who opt for Opera opted on their own , not coz they saw an ad in Google or coz they saw some news item which said some browser is awesome and has zillions of downloads.”
I don’t see what’s so impressive about that. All it means is that Opera has no idea how to to advertise their product at all.
I agree with your point. Opera has been very bad at advertising their product. They either create too much hype like in the case of Unite, or they don’t do any publicity at all. When Firefox 1 was released, i was already using Opera for a few years then and I was surprised at the hype Firefox was generating, considering that it was no match for Opera back then.
I think Opera should learn something from Firefox when it comes to hyping their product.
Either too much or too little hype, but when Mozilla does it, it’s right regardless?
True. But a huge chunk of the market goes to the United States. If you could market a product successfully in the United States alone, then that should be good enough by it self.
At least the rule of thumb in any business is to conquer the US market before anything else. As that’s the biggest market in the world.
Opera has more users than Chrome and Safari.
Yes there is, because Opera as a public company is required by law to be accurate with its reporting.
It most certainly is.
Just a quick note here, while I’m at it. While Opera most likely have more users than Chrome and Safari many of Opera’s users are due to deals with mobile-phone makers and the like. Whereas Chrome lives on its popularity and Google Ads (or did I miss some deal somewhere?).
So you could argue that most likely Chrome are more popular than Opera just like how Firefox are more popular than Internet Explorer.